A funny perspective

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lynn Neighbors on February 20, 2010 at 9:27am

Answer is real simple but it isn't funny, it is sad. Sad that there could be enough ignorant Americans to vote this guy into office.
Read Luke 21:28 ...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, for your redemption draweth nigh. Jesus is coming back soon.
I voted early and i voted against this President not because he is black and i am white but because of where he stood on several issues. He is a Muslim not a Christian, he is pro-gay and pro-Abortion and anti-American. What more needs to be said. The bumper sticker with the acronym for his name as One Big A** Mistake America sums it up pretty good! Perhaps George did start the ball rolling on this issue as a measure to bring about a more peaceful situation, but he was not talking anti-American crap to other countries like this guy has done.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Drilling Ahead on February 22, 2010 at 7:45pm

I asked the Postmaster at our Post office this the other day...She said she has received that email forward about the Muslim stamp a hundred times...and she said the actual fact was the Post office HAS to issue a stamp for ALL the major religions...We have a Christian stamp, and a Muslim stamp, etc...That stuff just gets blown out of poportion in email forwards...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Drilling Ahead on February 22, 2010 at 7:52pm

Important to remember that "Being a Muslim does not make you a terrorist" just as "Being an American does not make me a Democrat" I have made some great Muslim friends here and I notice that they all show great respect for others.
Interesting note...I have had to ban a small percentage of members for their posts that were offensive, vulgar or just to disrespectful....and almost all of them have been from America ( Which embarasses me)...Never have I had to ban ANYONE from the Middle East. Thats something I have always noticed about this site.......Here is a link to the Christmas stamp http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_088.htm

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Voodoobob on February 24, 2010 at 4:04pm

Those are all good points.

I did not articulate my initial post well enough. My post was not about a condemnation of a government office over the Muslim holiday stamp. It just so happened that the example included this particular belief. It was about condemnation of a system of government we have here in the US that allows for some groups of publicly funded government employees to use religious iconography for display, profit, and propaganda:aka post office. This is all the while disallowing another publicly funded group of government employees to utilize religious icons for the exact same reasons: aka small town involved in 10 commandment fiasco. Does it not cheapen all religions when we allow the "face" of a belief system to be sold to the masses for profit? It kind of takes the "sacred" out of it.
My post was meant to be a thought over the sliding scale this nation has when it comes to separation of church and state. The whole idea behind the separation, as introduced by Mr. Jefferson, is two fold. It prevents the government endorsement of one brand of faith: aka Iran, and it prevents religious organizational control from weaseling its way into government:aka the dark ages of Europe.
This was not meant as a rebuttal of any kind, rather an expansion on my original intention.

PS...Any of you guys ever look up the Norwegian oilfied union? Perfect example of an oilfield union that works and benefits all involved. Have a good day.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lynn Neighbors on March 9, 2010 at 9:52am

Another answer is that it is a sign of the times. How we can have so many ignorant, non-Christian, and Anti-Christian people of voting age in this country that they vote a Muslim into the Oval Office is beyond me; many do not even know that the country was built on and founded by Biblical principal. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Perhaps too many good men simply did not vote. My dad ends every e-mail with Luke 21:28 -> And when these things come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Voodoobob on March 10, 2010 at 6:38pm

I am not one to nit pick, but while our country might have been founded on quasi-religious rhetoric, it was not formed as a Christian nation. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but most certainly not Christians as you or I might be. On closer examination you can almost get the feel that our government was created intentionally to exclude religious influence and principles. This was my original gripe. In a government like ours, where the founding fathers went out of there way to keep religion out of the halls of power, it should not be allowed that our federal government "pimps" out various beliefs to make a buck.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ron pruitt on April 9, 2010 at 7:21am

you need to study your history alot more on our for fathers christ like or christians values. this country was built on christians morals Oilfieldman...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Voodoobob on April 9, 2010 at 12:48pm

I did! You know what I found? I found quite a bit of information on the subject, and the following post quotes heavily from the web site http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html You ever hear of Thomas Paine? He was the guy that wrote a lot of publications back in the day that guided the early founding fathers ideas for independence. Such writings include : Common Sense, The American Crisis, and Rights of Man. This guy is often referred to as the father of the American Revolution because his writings inspired and guided others of his time to take arms against Britain for the sake of American freedom. Lets look at some of his writing, specifically pages 8 and 9 of his book, The Age of Reason:"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." That seems pretty cut and dry. Lets look at another founding father, shall we?

George Washington. Yup, Good old George...according to records and eyewitness accounts, did not even request a clergyman while on his deathbed. He also appointed the first Unitarian chaplain. That may seem like nothing, untill you read what someone that knew the man on a personal level wrote. "I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his secrets and believed himself to be so, has often told me that General Washington believed no more in the system (Christianity) than he did." (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 1, p. 284.)" . It is also worth noting, that at no time in his life did he ever announce a religious affiliation.

John Adams, the second president of the United States, had the senate ratify the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

Thomas Jefferson, the third president, said many things that can still inspire some one to this day. In fact it was after reading his ideas on a wall of separation between church and state, that I felt compelled to start this post. This is actually a snip from one of his letters that he wrote--Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320.

I really just included this so you could see the idea behind my original post.

Well, that being said, on to the next founding father-James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution. The following is from a letter from Madison to William Bradford dated April 1, 1774 "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Ethan Allen said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."


Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Drilling Ahead on April 9, 2010 at 1:13pm

Well said!...hehe...and I guess that pretty well takes care of that...lol

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ron pruitt on April 13, 2010 at 7:04am

hello curtis.. would you please check out or google christian quotes of our founding fathers. out of the main 56 for fathers maybe 5-6 were confused in there thoughts and beliefs, however the other 50 are really passionat in there beliefs about christianity ,faith in God.. thanks oilfieldman May God bless you and your family

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Drilling Ahead on April 13, 2010 at 7:17am

Well, I watched a show on The History Channel a few nights ago about George Washington....Did you know when taking the Oath Of Office, at the very end he himself Ad Lib'ed and inserted "So Help Me God"...now all Presidents repeat these same words with every new swearing in. So was George Washington a religious man? Were the other founding fathers religious?...or even the greater question Did They Found This Country On Religious Values?
Well..The blood shed over "Freedom Of Religion" tells me that they never meant for us to have a National Religion, they envisioned a country where we are free to choose.

I actually could care less if they themselves were religious or christian-it makes me no difference.its the same today, anybody can claim to be a christian and many think they are- but you got to walk the walk, if you are going to talk the talk.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Voodoobob on April 13, 2010 at 8:39am

I'm betting people back then were like they are today. It is not unheard of for people to put on a false religious front so others will feel better about trusting them. Lets not forget that these "founding fathers", were politicians. They were politicians that were involved in a revolution. It is a well known, and commonly used, political tool to act more religious than what you are to elicit trust from the public. Do you think every person on American soil at the time was comfortable with the newly established government? It is well documented that some people back then had their doubts. So, Gods name probably was invoked to help calm people and give them a sense that the people in charge had everything under control. Kind of funny to me how public quotes often contrast with what these "founding fathers" wrote in their letters and journals.

Maybe the politicians back then were lily white and right with God, maybe they were as crooked then as they are now. I believe the latter. I guaranty none of the "founding fathers" bank accounts and/or land holdings shrank after the conclusion of the revolution. They were involved in a rebellion from the established government of the time. I would not rely on public statements too heavily for indicators of belief because people back then, as they do now, often use a religious image to embellish their own image.

Regardless of what we think or conjecture; the official position of our government, our founding fathers, and every single senator holding a seat in 1797 is that which was ratified by a UNANIMOUS vote in the senate back in 1797.

• ▶ Reply